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Author Topic: Kedashi queens playtest  (Read 905 times)
fikster
Jenta
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« on: July 07, 2017, 07:21:57 PM »

I am so very lucky - I will be play testing these two ladies tomorrow.

They will be protecting their forest from both the Empire and the Delgon. There might be bugs to catch, fires to escape from, and stolen wood to be retrieved. With any luck PreePree will be lunch (and dinner) many times over.

Now, is there anything anyone would like me to specifically test? Let me know.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 08:56:35 AM by fikster » Logged
Carcharoth
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 10:55:27 PM »

Those are fantastic! Good work creating the playtest cards Smiley
For those who are interested:
Spawn Frenu*: place one frenu adjacent to this model (note: you can never have more frenu on the board than you started with, including those in Swarms).
Very Tough should have an asterisk  Wink
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fikster
Jenta
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2017, 06:27:34 PM »

Battle Report #1 - Ancient Queen

For the first battle, we decided to test the ancient queen. We set up two forces of 300 points, and played the Inferno! scenario.

Nobody knows how it started, but a wall of flames is descending upon the forest, destroying all in its path. An ancient queen and her followers rush for the safety of a nearby hill, while some Empire rabble are intent on doing the same. That’s actually quite an opportunity: one must eat well before starting the long trek to find a new home.

The brave Kedashi: the ancient queen and two brutes protecting her, a kaopi, a small swarm, and 17 frenu.


The food


A frenu’s eye view of  the situation, with the fire coming at the bottom, the Kedashi within the trees to the left, and the food rushing in from the top.


The brave Kedashi advance towards their goal. The 2 oval pieces of forest with a tree on top are forest areas that the queen may deploy within her command range.


The game starts slowly, with everyone and everything – including the fire – progressing towards the hill.


The Empire knights reach the hill first, but are quickly followed there by a medium swarm, which attacks them immediately.


Meanwhile, the slower members of the troops slog along. The venerated queen leaves the safety of the forest, while the kaopi stays behind, busy creating a second medium swarm. The fire is now close.


Aww, look at the little frenu ready to kiss the nice mount. Or peck it to death, now that’s more likely.


The kaopi advances, a second medium swarm having been created right next to nice, juicy food.


Meanwhile, the queen reaches the foot of the hill.


Disaster! The swarm has been destroyed! Bob and Rob the brutes are in shock at this dramatic turn of event.
That being said, one of the food is dead as well. And an elite it was, too…


The queen herself is outraged. And also feeling just a little bit of heat on her back.


The treacherous food reaches the hill first, denying the queen access.


This does not stop her however, and she and her brutes manage to squeeze onto the hill. So does the kaopi. Just in time too: the fire has now reached the hill. The light and heat are nearly unbearable.


It is now time to deal with the food. Rob the brute dispatches a couple of meat sacks that were in the way.


Meanwhile, the slingers are legging it. Good thing too - can you believe they’d had the cheek to shoot at the queen?


On the hill, things are getting tense. Rob attacks the mounted leader, but fails to bring him down. Bob then charges in, sacrificing himself but felling the last elite.


Rob will be mourned later. Right now, the Kedashi are safe on the hill, with plenty of food to keep their bellies full. All’s well that ends well.


Some thoughts on the game and the rules:
  • When we started playing we did not have points for the queen, I estimated it at 100 (and later found out that Mike had come up with the same estimate on Facebook - which was nice).
  • The queen is Commander (4), however this did not feel sufficient, as she had to use 2 of the 4 slots to move the brutes. A rules tweak fixed that in the second game.
  • Creating frenu is really nice, however this was not used too much in that game. First some frenu must have been sacrificed as the new ones must come from that pool. Also, I was overcautious and only created one per turn (I wanted to keep one stamina point for the queen’s Very Tough ability, just in case). I realise now that I should have always created 2 frenu, as I could always sacrifice them back if needed. My brain wasn’t operating very well, it must have been the heat.
  • The heroic actions of the brutes won the game, however I am not sure that they are best suited as defenders. I’ll let Mike come up with some special rules (until then, I’ll keep using them, because they are awesome).
  • Playing this scenario on a hot summer day makes for some nicely dramatic pictures, and also for potential disaster for the various resin minis. Oops…
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 08:53:51 AM by fikster » Logged
fikster
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 08:46:47 PM »

Battle Report #2 - Young Queen

Now it was the turn of the young queen. I had set her at 80 points, brought down to 50 when we saw Mike’s comments on Facebook. Following a quick chat with him, the queen was also given Trainer (2, initiative) – this meant her accompanying brutes had learned to follow without being asked and allowed the full use of her Commander (4) abilities. Now she was going to be able to activate the entire force much more easily - which is very nice, fluff-wise.

It was 300 points again, this time against the Delgon.

There are many things happening in the forest. And way too many interlopers. The frenu have alerted a young queen and her retinue to the presence of loggers. She rushes in to stop them before they leave the woods.
The chariot has been placed 24 inches from the edge of the board. If it reaches the edge, the Delgon win. This should make for a quick, 4 turns game.

The Kedashi: the young queen with two protectors (the seldoath was making an infernal racket because it hadn’t gotten to play yet, so to be nice to it I let it replace Rob this time round), a kaopi, 3 small swarms and 21 frenu.


The Delgon: NuraSen Gohral, 1 NuraKira (which we  gave Beast Handler (2) to so it would be able to control the chariot), 4 KalJoran, 7 KalGarkii, 4 KalDromar, and 1 KalDruKar.


The Delgon rush to the forest’s edge, with a worried KalDruKar watching the rear.


The KalDruKar has reason to worry: the queen is on her way.


The Kedashi burst from the trees.


The Delgon meet the threat, and the KalDruKar opens fire, frying a frenu.


This just won’t do. A medium swarm is sent to deal with the KalDruKar, while another one fails to reach the NuraKira and engages with its bodyguards instead.


Let this be a lesson to all interlopers. If you fry even a single frenu, we will find you…


…we will attack with great fury…


…and you will be food.


Meanwhile, the swarm disengages but cannot catch the NuraKira, which is running away as fast as it can. Not fast enough for the kaopi, though…


Things are getting serious. The NuraKira is cornered and can’t run; and a swarm attacks the chariot.


The chariot disengages, but is slowed down and does not reach the edge of the woods.


And as for the NuraKira…


Goodbye Delgon.


The Delgon were so close to the edge… Three more inches would have done it.


Some thoughts on the game and the rules:
  • The queen being able to activate the entire army felt really nice.
  • Again I did not create that many frenu, however they did help turn the game, as the kaopi and swarms ended up needing to sacrifice quite a lot of them.

Further tests games next Saturday…
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 08:54:19 AM by fikster » Logged
Carcharoth
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 10:27:03 PM »

Excellent reports!
Lots to process now...
And I do need to work on a Delgon themed Engu logging crew...
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Danger Frog
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 12:56:22 PM »

It's great to see these models in action (and with lovely paint jobs) and they do sound like they'll be really useful support models for the Kedashi. I find the terrain rule very interesting, but I think it might be quite hard to really use effectively given how mobile Twilight forces normally are.

This post has reminded me though that I need to get my logging wagon built (I'm currently eyeing up the Empire slingers as potentially making good loggers once their sling has been replaced by a double-handed axe; the Gripping Beast Dane-axes I have for Saga conversions fit perfectly).
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fikster
Jenta
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 06:49:18 PM »

Thank you for the kind words Smiley

Yes, shame these forests aren't mobile (hint, hint). I've used them as a shield to avoid getting charged too quickly, as the kaopi builds up the swarms.

And speaking of wagon building, there was hobby done right before that second game. I don't think I've ever cut it that close. Tongue

http://www.ar-tat.org/anyaral/Last%20minute%20building.mp4
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 08:59:38 AM by fikster » Logged
Carcharoth
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 11:58:31 AM »

The logic for the terrain is that you get to choose your battlefield a bit more. Forces are manoeuvrable in Twilight, but battles do end up taking place in a relatively small area. They are still in early playtest though, so I'm very interested to hear how valuable people find them.
Ive found that one or two woods can be incredibly useful if you can manage to work around them. In a game against paul a small wood completely changed the outcome as it allowed me to close my swarm in on his massed ranks of slingers. That wasn't deployed with a queen, but she would allow it to be a bit more controlled.
One thing I don't think I've clarified yet is whether you can place terrain independently of the standard deployment rules (for example, placing it within X inches of an enemy model). I think you can probably place it as you like, as long as it doesn't gobover any models or scenery that are on the table already.
Cool video - you made less of a mess of attaching the logs than I did!
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fikster
Jenta
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 09:26:24 PM »

Battle Report #3 - Young Queen

For the third game, we played a variation on Eradication (from the rules book page 138).

Having wandered too far into the forest, PreePree and its guard have unwittingly crossed into the territory of a young queen. She has given chase and the intruders have taken refuge in a cavern. Fumigating them out is not an option, so she will brave her dislike of confined spaces and finish them there and then (or at least her followers will).

Both forces are 250 points strong. The Empire wins if at least one model carries PreePree out of the cavern.

The Empire forces


The Kedashi forces


The cavern


Deployment. The queen’s terrain ability comes in handy, as she blocks the exit quite nicely.


First turn: the Kedashi enter the cavern, the knights approach but do not dare enter the wood. The kaopi creates a medium swarm.


Second turn: The kaopi creates a second swarm, right next to the captain. Meanwhile, the first swarm rushes ahead and attacks standard bearer – which happens to be holding PreePree.


Oh look, the bearer is no more and PreePree is all alone on the floor!


Meanwhile, the first brute dismally fails its charge against the knight. Goodbye Bob (or was it Rob?)


The nobleguard crossbows fire at the swarm, but the nimble frenu avoid all the bolts.


The riders decide to fall back and protect PreePree.


After an intense combat, both a swarm and a rider perish. The nobleguard  crossbows have taken to shooting at the remaining brute. Not the wisest of moves, folks.


And that’s the end of a short turn, where only the Empire got to play.


It’s a new turn, and the nobleguard crossbows realise they shouldn’t have annoyed the Kedashi.


Of course, this is all a bit too late for them.


The Empire strikes back though, and a second swarm goes down.


It is the start of what will turn out to be the final turn. It will be short, and brutal.


The kaopi joins the fray.


Meanwhile, the remaining brute charges PreePree.


PreePree tries to escape, dashing here and there, but alas the brute’s jaws close mercilessly on its tiny neck.


PreePree, a.k.a. A Tasty Treat


PreePree is gone, and so the game is over. The queen is satisfied.


Notes
  • The queen was used as support again, with her brutes protecting her until it was time to send them in for a kill.
  • On frenu creation, having fretted about not creating enough last week: as the queen can only recover one stamina per turn, she can indeed create a single frenu, at least after the first time.
  • Strategic placement of terrain certainly helps, especially under this scenario’s conditions…
  • I need to build some heftier forest templates, these ones having a tendency to shift during the game (moving forest! It can be done!).
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 09:13:09 AM by fikster » Logged
darth tater
Darth Teaser - Twilight Playtester
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 01:52:14 PM »

Fantastic!  Very cool

Looks like the Queen is shaping up very nicely!
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fikster
Jenta
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 07:53:00 PM »

We might have broken the game

Sorry, no battle reports right now as we've just finished playing. I'll try and post pictures later.

I've brought another pair of eyes to the play test (I've roped in another new player).

For the game we've just finished he picked the Kedashi. We played 'chance encounter' - i.e. a basic game of kill the elites.

He picked 2 young queens, a bagrun (and a trebarnii boss to control it), and all the frenu he could. Then he deployed inside woods, which he expanded by adding the extra woods generated by the 2 queens. And he waited.

My Delgon had to go inside the woods - the shooters were useless as they did not have line of sight, and no-one was able to charge inside the woods. Well played. And he charged the frenu again the Delgon: with two queens, that was quite a lot of bombing runs. So far so good.

But then he figured something out: on his turn, right before activating the queen, he would sacrifice the frenu that just went away on their bombing run. Easy to do with the 9" command range. Each sacrificed frenu gave him a stamina point, which he immediately spent to spawn a frenu next to the queen - in effect teleporting the frenu back. As the queens were close to the bagrun, he was able to get them ready for another bombing run immediately, by activating these frenu during his activation phase.

It was a massacre (still, quite fun).

Unless we've misread the rules (but as far as we know he is using special abilities that can be used at any time), we might have stumbled upon something a wee bit too powerful. A suggestion was to limit the number of times per turn you can sacrifice a frenu (maybe making it higher for an ancient queen).
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 06:37:52 PM »

That was a concern I had for the queens. I had originally planned to give them Manipulate swarm, but that would have been more extreme. I also deliberately said the frenu had to swarm adjacent to the queen so they couldn't be catapulted at the enemy.
You have found a good way to break it though (which is a vital part of playtesting!).
Limiting the number of uses of an ability is something I've tried to avoid, but might be necessary.
One option would be to limit when the ability can be used - possibly prior to activating models, or only during the end phase (prior to regaining stamina). She can still summon all the frenu within her commend range to her in one go, which could be too powerful.
Another option is to reduce her command range down, but that has knock on effects.
Definitely something I've been pondering and need to think about more!
Has anybody else got any good ideas?
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 06:38:55 PM »

Or maybe I just need rules to let the kalgush set fire to the woods...
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Halcyon
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2017, 12:40:52 AM »

If you are concerned that Spawn Frenu is very powerful, you could just make it cost 2 stamina like Tactician.
This would also stop the creation of an infinite loop of sacrificing and creating Frenu, as you would eventually run out of Frenu to sacrifice.

EDIT:
I have just realised that increasing the cost won't stop an infinite loop, as each turn you would regain a stamina and could sacrifice a Frenu for another, to get the 2 stamina to spawn; but at least you could only create one Frenu a turn this way and not several as was the case in the playtest.   
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 04:32:30 PM by Halcyon » Logged
Carcharoth
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2017, 04:18:37 PM »

And the other thing to consider is whether it matters that the queen can pull all her frenu back to her during her turn. If you have a kaopi nearby you can retreat a large number anyway. Combining that with the bagrun in a forest is a sneaky trick, but for most scenarios you could simply give it a wide berth, then there are a lot of points hiding in the forest...
It's a challenging problem, but that is half the fun of game design  Smiley
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